Depravity may lie in two extremes

So I’ve seen two views or extremes amongst Torah observant Jews and “noahides” or “ger,” those claiming to follow the seven laws that I believe lead to immorality. Before I share that, please check out this video.


Now, the two views that I believe will lead to immorality are as follows.

The first view is that if something isn’t distinctly mentioned as prohibited in the seven laws, then it is totally fine in the eyes of God. 

In the light of this video (and in addition, the fact that Sodom and Gammorah was destroyed because of something not mentioned in the seven laws), it needs to be seen that such is not the case, that there are subjects outside of the seven laws that can be seen to be rationally wrong when guided by rational laws in the Jewish Torah.

The other view is that if the law of the government should only be judged based on that law, not the seven laws or general morality. So if the politicians draft a law that states that the police can lie in court and get away scot-free, or they can kidnap (“arrest”) a man for all the wrong reasons and no repercussions arise, then that act is to be judged by the law of the politicians, not by the seven laws or general morality.

This is an absolute interpretation of the Jewish principle (not seven law principle, or general moral principle) of “the law of the State is law.” Or it can come from the morally reprehensible view that Gentiles are meant to obey the laws of the government that claims “ownership” of them.

In this view, the fact that there is a law that imposes fines or imprisonment on any person that doesn’t refer to a “transgender” person by their preferred pronoun is totally acceptable. Such a law will also brand unwilling parents of a child which believes itself to be “transgender” or wants to dress in drag as “child abusers,” which may lead to that child being taken by govt agents. But because “the law of the State is law,” the individual just has to take it, to submit to it.

In this view, the individual is, in effect, owned by the State, the government, the politicians. Whatever the State says must be done as if the individual is a slave to the government.

Both immature and horrendous views end up in depravity, saying ok to some disgusting acts simply because of an stupid view of the role of the seven laws or because of an idolatrous or totalitarian view of government.

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10 Comments

  1. Hrvatski Noahid

    > In the light of this video (and in addition, the fact that Sodom and Gammorah was destroyed because of something not mentioned in the seven laws), it needs to be seen that such is not the case, that there are subjects outside of the seven laws that can be seen to be rationally wrong when guided by rational laws in the Jewish Torah.

    This desire to go beyond and outside the seven laws leads to the creation of new religions and cults. The Torah Law for Gentiles forbids transgender operations and gender-altering hormone drugs (The Divine Code by Rabbi Moshe Weiner, Ask Noah International, 2011,
    p 461, topic 4 and Editor’s Note). Rational laws have nothing to do with it.

    • Going beyond the seven simply means doing acts that don’t fall under the seven. It doesn’t imply that a person is doing the extra behaviour because they think they were commanded by God. So the charge that doing acts not covered by the seven leads to cults and religions. Honouring (good) parents or loving one’s siblings or even respecting one’s friends is not covered by the seven but doing so doesn’t lead to cults and religions.

      We’ll have to disagree about “Torah Law for Gentiles.” Rabbi Moshe Weiner doesn’t have the authority to make up laws for all Gentiles and transgender operations and gender altering drugs are not covered by the core seven commands.

      The issue is also the fact that govts are creating laws about this, and an individual’s choice to disobey, something which goes against the principle that some hold that Gentiles must obey the govts that claim ownership of them.

    • Rabbi Weiner and previous rabbis created the category of rational commandments. I do accept the reality of rationally compelled behaviours, fences, things we can do surrounding commandments to ensure we don’t transgress. I just don’t like the word “commandment” because it is inaccurate.

  2. Hrvatski Noahid

    I agree that governments creating laws about this is highly problematic. I teach English.
    The new transgender pronouns are substandard. I will not allow their use in my classroom. The government does not have the authority to change English grammar rules.

  3. Hrvatski Noahid

    > Rabbi Weiner and previous rabbis created the category of rational commandments. I do accept the reality of rationally compelled behaviours, fences, things we can do surrounding commandments to ensure we don’t transgress. I just don’t like the word “commandment” because it is inaccurate.

    I have a question. How many rational commandments do Gentiles have? Is there an exact number?

    • HRV, you would have to ask Weiner and Gaon Nissim about that. And where it comes to good behaviours not covered by the seven laws, there is (thankfully) no number.

  4. Hrvatski Noahid

    Ok bro. I suggest we leave it there. Stay well and remember: Torah study every day keeps the transgender freak show away.

    • LOL! That, my friend, was a fantastic and funny ending statement! LOL!

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